the legendary relivant magaine are now doing a broadband tv and if you click the picture or here you can watch Kayne West's Jesus walks video. I know its not exactly hot of the press but it is very relivant to what i have been thinking about recently.
Many a further detachment from traditional christian views, reason and rational thought as fundementals of my world view. It is the logical conclusion from a philosphey which places greater value on the spiritual than the physical but that doesnt mean it doesnt feel a bit wierd.
i felt really uncomforable at a christian union meeting last friday where they were talking about focusing on "preaching the gospel" not social action, but perfectly at home in the 24-7 boiler room in london, where people were talking about giving up their jobs to work in dodgy bars because they feel God's love for the people there.
what do yous think?
8 comments:
'Many a further detachment from traditional christian views, reason and rational thought as fundementals of my world view.'
The example you give doesn't sound so much like detachment from traditional christian views as it does detaching from a particular view of christianity which isn't perhaps all that in line with what christianity should be about. In fact it sounds very REASONABLE and full of RATIONAL THOUGHT.....not at odds with traditional christian faith! Although I suppose it all depends on what you mean by traditional christian views and reason.
In my mind we have very much positive stuff to glean from 'traditonal christianity'.
I reckon we need to realise that christian tradition encompasses alot more ground than that of our own particular traditional background! I think we'd do well to read around and sus out different practices and tradtions from the rich well of our cummulative christian history. From what i read the boiler rooms seem to be good at tapping into some of these traditional ideas and practices that got lost somewhere along the way!
So yeah maybe distance yourself from certain forms of christianity if they're way off mark, but otherwise i reckon we should be digging into our christian tradition to find some of the gems it has stored away! This along with a willingness to be creative both with ideas and practice (faithful improvisation!?) could churn up some gems for the Kingdom both now and in the future!
Just a few thoughts.....
I think as long as you truly seek God and want to do what He has for you to do and with the rigtht motivation then you should follow your heart. some people are called to all out, in your face evangelism and some are called to work in bars. God's plan is never the same for any two people!
G, am feeling loads better than last time I spoke to you! Seriously - you were a Godsend I think. Thanks for coming - and being obedient!!
'"preaching the gospel" not social action'
just a thought ... isn't the first the calling of all Christians and the second a response to the heart of God? Both are completely in line with the will and purposes of God; but we are explicitly called to the first - "go and make disciples of all nations". Obviously in order to do that we may need to meet felt needs.
"preach the gospel at all times and if necessary use words."
St Francis of Assisi
good to hear from you all,
to be a little more clear, i did not mean old traditional stuff, cause back in the day when all the larger denomiations were set up things were rockin, St Ignatius for president.
Indeed I wasnt so much meaning that I was actively trying to throw anything away, more observing that I seem to be developing into a mind set which bears little relation to that generally taught at the church I grew up in.
eg consider Jesus walking into the temple just before He wreked the place, how would I respond to the Holy Spirit if I heard Him say turf everyone out as I strolled into church...
thats quite "out of the box" from a lot of what i was raised in, but it was the will of God...
glad to hear it ems i really enjoyed the visit
different parts of the church surely focus on different things... so its not all that unreasonable for a christian union to focus on gospel preaching- especially when its trying to reach students who frankly aren't all that needy on a social-action perspective... (even with a decent student debt students are rarely that needy)
meanwhile another ministry reaches those who have serious social needs... people who very much need support, and who also need to hear the gospel. personally i value the work of tim chester and john stott who have written some superb stuff to show us how to approach social action wisely.
before i leave,..... when will "anonymous" people remember that st. francis of assisi was a preacher (who spoke to people)... preaching is always and was always necessary (not necessarily every minute of everyday). Its also dubious that that quote either came from his lips in that form, or meant what its often applied as.
HoHum...
alright bluefish,
thanks for the comment, ur blogs are awesome
I do however disagree with your comment, I think thats it from spending time with the poor and suffering people that we gain Christs perspective on the world and from that place we should preach.
Saying your are "preaching the gospel" is grand but what does that mean?
In the context of this discussion;
Jesus chilled until He was 30 picked up a few wierdos and outcasts, wandered around a tiny bit of the world spending time with poor, dying, leperous people, healing more than He preached, then dying for our mistakes and coming back to life.
To make disciples of this God man surely requires some adherance to His lifestyle? I cant see how one can talk of "preaching the gospel" and not have the poor central to it...
'eg consider Jesus walking into the temple just before He wreked the place, how would I respond to the Holy Spirit if I heard Him say turf everyone out as I strolled into church...
thats quite "out of the box" from a lot of what i was raised in, but it was the will of God...'
Let's be clear about that example though - Jesus' action was in response to the use of the Temple as a marketplace. We need to be sure that the will of God is in line with Scripture and the character and nature of God. But yes, without the willingness and openness to hear God's will, we will not have anything like the impact that He would have us make.
When you say 'poor' does that always mean financially?
Also, in a world of so much social injustice and inequality don't you have to look at both sides of the scale? In my experience the relatively rich find it very hard to give money to anything or anyone! Don't forget that one of Jesus disciples was a tax collector (very rich but poor in spirit?).
Students are the leaders of tomorrow. How do you alleviate the suffering in Africa? Yes attend to the needs on the ground but equally, look at ways to fix the real problems - government corruption, debt interest, unfair trade.
All that is all rather off-topic anyway, because Jesus did not come to fix the social problems of the world, or to heal, or any of those things. Yes He impacted those areas but that was not His fundamental reason for being here.
His purpose was singly this: to reconcile humanity to God. Through that act, _WE_ then become the agents of God's mercy.
Ultimately, we are here for a few short years, and the love of God that we show, the miracles and everything else are as pointers to the One who sent us.
Let us imagine, momentarily, the scenario - the problem of poverty has been wiped out for good. 2 questions - would that necessarily mean an increase in people committing their lives to Christ? and perhaps more importantly, would the only circumstances that that could arise be a global revival?
As I said before, social justice is God's heart felt cry, and as Christians, we have a duty to attend to it. But am I more in need of salvation if I am financially poor? Surely not!
Let us not forget that our calling, our mission, our purpose is to bring people into the kingdom.
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